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Playing TAG with Semi-Guided LRMs
#1
TAG doesn't seem to recognize indirect-fire Semi-Guided LRMs as 'artillery'. . . Is there a way to get Semi-Guided LRMs to behave properly as an ammo? I could probably make an entirely separate weapon system so that the game will treat it as artillery, but I doubt that would work terribly well on units with multiple ammo types. As always, thanks to the creators for their dedication.
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#2
(11-21-2011, 12:23 AM)FogHat link Wrote: TAG doesn't seem to recognize indirect-fire Semi-Guided LRMs as 'artillery'. . . Is there a way to get Semi-Guided LRMs to behave properly as an ammo? I could probably make an entirely separate weapon system so that the game will treat it as artillery, but I doubt that would work terribly well on units with multiple ammo types. As always, thanks to the creators for their dedication.

What version of MegaMek are you using because it seems to work properly in the current development release...

Also, nice name... great band Tongue
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#3
My version of MegaMek is current. My best estimate of what's wrong is that, by not having any off-board artillery, MegaMek isn't forcing the off-board artillery phase. On-board artillery doesn't seem to do it, and I can't find any mention of  HOW to position a unit off board. Simply shifting deployment coordinates crashes MegaMek solid.

Unit_DevilS_1=Thumper Artillery Vehicle,Long Job,2,5,W,???

Also, when I field Nemesis and Haywire Pods for an  iNARC they get 0/0 ammo. I use SSW for building and converting units. Any and all help appreciated.

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#4
(11-21-2011, 05:12 PM)FogHat link Wrote: My version of MegaMek is current. My best estimate of what's wrong is that, by not having any off-board artillery, MegaMek isn't forcing the off-board artillery phase. On-board artillery doesn't seem to do it, and I can't find any mention of  HOW to position a unit off board. Simply shifting deployment coordinates crashes MegaMek solid.

Unit_DevilS_1=Thumper Artillery Vehicle,Long Job,2,5,W,???

Also, when I field Nemesis and Haywire Pods for an  iNARC they get 0/0 ammo. I use SSW for building and converting units. Any and all help appreciated.

I'm currently playing a game with onboard artillery and its working correctly.
But Indirect LRMs aren't "Artillery" by the by.

You shoot them during the normal weapons phase. If you shoot them at a tagged target you get a bonus.
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#5
The firing phase of the missiles isn't the issue, it's the firing phase of the TAG. I'm not getting a phase in which I can fire TAG. I'm going to try reconverting the mechs with a newer version of SSW. I wasn't really suggesting semi-guided LRM's are artillery, just that they're indirect fire and use TAG. (In theory they just use a scaled down version of the Arrow IV guidance system.)

Do you know how to set a unit up as off-board in a Scenario file?
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#6
You need copperhead rounds in your tube artillery, or homing arrow IV missiles for TAG to be of any benefit.
Offboard units are not currently supported in scenario files, you have to start a game manually and configure the unit to be offboard in the lobby by using the customize unit command.
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#7
I'm going ask a couple of silly questions here, but they might help those that can help you  Smile


(11-21-2011, 05:12 PM)FogHat link Wrote: My version of MegaMek is current.

Current Stable or current Development Snapshot?  I ask because the current Stable version is actually a couple of years old and there have been quite a bit added/updated/fixed (in the Development Snapshots) since then.


(11-21-2011, 05:12 PM)FogHat link Wrote: Also, when I field Nemesis and Haywire Pods for an  iNARC they get 0/0 ammo. I use SSW for building and converting units.

Do you get that problem with the designs that come with MegaMek, or only with the ones you build in SSW?
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#8
Thanks, BeeRock. It took far too long for me to realize that "Lobby" referred to the command console, but that helped. It's still annoying to have to field a specific type of artillery to be able to use TAG for Semi-Guided LRMs. There's no other way to force an off-board phase?

Using DEV snapshot Version 0.35.25 . . . I'll test the iNARC. I... think there's an alternate config. of the battle cobra that uses multiple iNARC ammo types?
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#9
Update: Battle Cobra BTL-C-2OC lists as having ammo, but it also lists all said ammo as "iNARC Pods" so it's probable haywire and nemesis simply aren't implemented in MegaMek...
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#10
Ugh, I'm an idiot. A unit with TAG is eligible for the offboard attack phase, and needs to fire it in that phase.
Then, in the normal firing phase, fire your semi-guided LRMs at the tagged target (if the TAG hit)
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#11
(11-21-2011, 08:04 PM)FogHat link Wrote: Update: Battle Cobra BTL-C-2OC lists as having ammo, but it also lists all said ammo as "iNARC Pods" so it's probable haywire and nemesis simply aren't implemented in MegaMek...
No, you just need to customize the unit in the lobby by right clicking it and selecting "Customize Unit", and then choose other pods you want to use.
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#12
(11-21-2011, 07:44 PM)FogHat link Wrote: Thanks, BeeRock. It took far too long for me to realize that "Lobby" referred to the command console, but that helped.
Command consose? What do you mean by that?
By "lobby" I refer to the screen where you can add units, configure them, select which map boards to use, add minefields, add bots, and set the game options.
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#13
Haha. Don't sweat it, I'm an idiot too. I've just been setting up and running scenario files, so I was thinking the lobby was the command-line style interface at the bottom. I see what you mean now, and I think I figured out why MegaMek doesn't recognize the ammo allocated by SSW. SSW tags the ammo with a prefix designating it as IS or Clan Eg. (ISiNarc Haywire Pods). Remove that tag (iNarc Haywire Pods) and MegaMek shows the ammo just fine.

Rebuilding the Mech in MegaMekLab works too. The only major instability I noticed in MegaMekLab is that you need to reset your critical layout before altering automatically placed systems like the engine, or it crashes. I guess it tries to write into assigned critical spaces?
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#14
Aaaand I'm retarded. Having Semi-Guided LRMs DOES, in fact, seem to trigger the indirect fire phase, it's just that when SSW converted the Mech it changed the ammo type from semi-guided to standard LRMs. Yes, I JUST NOW noticed this. Feel free to lob rotten vegetables.
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#15
[me=ralgith]throws a rotten tomato and a head of rancid lettuce[/me]

Smile
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#16
As a related question... you are supposed to be able to use tag in place of spotting for normal lrms (which removes the penalties for the spotter shooting)  with regular lrm's there is no artillery phase and thus I cannot fire TAG.  Does anyone have a way to force the artillery phase without having offboard artillery?  Also, I am trying to be an indirect firing mech and am having difficulting with basic spotting as well.  Is there a guide to this or can anyone help me? (it seems kind of lame to have to get lucky enough to have your spotter go before you in initiative to be able to spot)

Thanks for all the help
Wormyxl
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#17
(12-20-2011, 11:35 PM)wormyxl link Wrote: As a related question... you are supposed to be able to use tag in place of spotting for normal lrms (which removes the penalties for the spotter shooting)  with regular lrm's there is no artillery phase and thus I cannot fire TAG.  Does anyone have a way to force the artillery phase without having offboard artillery?  Also, I am trying to be an indirect firing mech and am having difficulting with basic spotting as well.  Is there a guide to this or can anyone help me? (it seems kind of lame to have to get lucky enough to have your spotter go before you in initiative to be able to spot)

Thanks for all the help
Wormyxl

No, you're misinformed. TAG has no effect on standard LRMs. Nor do LRMs get dealt with in the artillery phase.
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#18
sorry, forgot to quote my source... pg 142 of TW: "To use TAG equipment for target designation, calculate the tohit number as for a standard weapon attack. Unlike spotting for indirect LRM fi re (see LRM Indirect Fire, p. 111), a unit can use TAG to spot and make a weapon attack with no additional to-hit penalty."  This says that I may use TAG to spot (with benefits that spotting doesn't have, but drawbacks that spotting doesn't have), but tag may only be fired in artillery phase... is there a way to get the artillery phase to occur without having artillery or semiguided LRM's? Also is there a way to spot for another unit to fire indirectly but not force the spotter to have an initiative better than the indirect fire-er?
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#19
OK!!!! I got it!!! all you need to do is enable the "indirect fire is always possible" feature, then when you go to shoot your lrm's indirectly you change it to indirect mode, select the target you wish to shoot at, right click it, select "weapons," and while your lrm is selected click fire in the drop down. (the fire button along the bottom will be greyed out and the target number will be listed as "needs impossible," but it will still fire as long as you get a spotter before everyone has finished their shooting designations.)  Kinda wish it would list the actual target number... but until that point, this will have to do.
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#20
You can also right click on your spotter and hit 'select', or use the unit list to select your active unit for an alternate firing order.
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