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Smoke before Fire
#1
Are there any plans to add smoke munitions for Long and Short Ranged missiles to MegaMek? If no-one's working on that would it be alright if I tried to?
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#2
That would be great since I had bought some smoke LRM rounds before switching over my mercenary campaign over to MM and haven't had a chance to use them.  I haven't tried the smoke artillery rounds yet, but does the smoke from them behave like it is supposed to according to the rules. i.e. does it dissipate after a set number of turns vs. have a chance to dissipate at every end phase like regular smoke?
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#3
Feel free to try to implement them and submit a patch.
Just make sure it works according to the rules in TacOps.
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#4
Awesome, I'll give it a try.
Still not 100% on how you submit a patch.

VVV Cheers.
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#5
To submit a patch, create a unified diff of your changes (using your development environment).
Then, go to the Patch tracker (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id...tid=448396), and click the "add new" link. Then, add the diff file to the new item on the tracker.
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#6
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=de...tid=448396

I did it! Mostly. Someone who knows what they're doing have a look then. Java's not my usual cup of code. ;D

Edit: I forgot to edit Server.java to halve smoke ammo explosions, and it looks like my bit in compute isn't handling existing smoke or off-board well. Will try to fix that now. 
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#7
I fixed it so smoke ammo explosions do half the base explosion damage. Flights of (2 SRMs) or (5 LRMs) missiles now track properly when fired into border hexes or by existing smoke clouds. Same link as above. Sorry for any TABs I left in the code, Bee.  Just noticed your comment.
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#8
It looks to me like smoke duration is not working correctly.
According to TO, for LRMs, duration should be half the launcher size, rounded down, and for SRMs the full launcher size.
Looking at the code, it looks like it just defaults to 3 rounds. Am I missing something?
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#9
Sorry I was going off the sarna description, since I don't have TO.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Smoke_Warhead
"     . . . the resulting smoke cloud is only 6m high and will dissipate within 30 seconds of impact."

30 seconds being 3 turns. . . If TO has it different I will alter it, but It really strikes me as odd that smoke would last different durations based on the launcher size. And by size do you mean critical space?  E.g. does that mean smoke from a SRM6 would covers 3 hexes for 3 turns, but three SRM2s would only cover the same three hexes for 1 turn? It's the same number and type of missiles hitting so why would the effect differ?
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#10
I believe they mean size as in the number of warheads launched, it say half (rounded down) for missiles, except SRMs which are full launcher size, so SRMs would be 2, 4 and 6 turns (and 2, 5, 7 and 10 for the LRMs). I'm guessing the thought is that the smoke is thicker because more missiles were launched. So you hit an area with 20 smoke missiles vs just 5, there will be thicker and take longer to disperse.

So with that line of thinking it would certainly make sense that if you fired an SRM6 or 3x SRM2s it would produce the same result as you said, so I'm not sure if you should plan to make the results cumulative if you hit a hex with multiple smoke missiles or just follow the duration from the largest missile rack. It may be worth checking the battletech forums and seeing if there is either errata or an answered question about firing multiple launchers with smoke ammunition at a single hex and if it effects the duration.
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#11
Well if the smoke is diffusive, the density of the smoke from a launcher should correspond to the volume it encompasses. One hex of heavy smoke should diffuse into N hexes of light smoke before completely dissipating. According to the rules each group of missiles produces a hex-full of 'heavy' regardless of the launcher size, and multiple groups of missiles fired from a single launcher fill adjacent hexes to preserve the volume to missile ratio. Having multiple smoke-filled hexes adjacent to each other means less space for a cloud to expand. So in the case of say, six hexes of smoke around a central hex of smoke, the central hex could not dissipate until the smoke around it dissipated, and the surrounding hexes each have 2 unshared hexes into which they can dissipate smoke each turn. You could have a function for smoke which iterates through adjacent hexes and sets the remaining duration of a smoke cloud based on how many of said adjacent hexes are filled with smoke. That said I'm not actually sure how I could do that, since smoke since the hex map doesn't seem to update until after the firing phase. Also I think programming a smoke-based game of life for megamek would make my ears would bleed.
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#12
Aye, that would possibly make sense, however I was trying to suggest what the rules may be and a way to find out what they actually are. Even if (as is often the case) it doesn't make perfect logical sense.
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#13
Here's the full rules from TO for smoke warheads for SRMs, LRMs and MMLs:

Smoke Missiles may only target hexes, not other battlefi eld units, and will not deliver damage to any units in the target hex.
Smoke Missiles fi ll a target area with a column of smoke 2 levels high (see p. 47).
This smoke varies in density and size with the damage capacity of the launcher used. For every 10 points of damage a Smoke Missile would deliver
as a standard missile volley (rounded up), the radius of the smoke-fi lled area increases by 1 hex (so an LRM-5, with its 5 points of damage, would
fi ll only 1 hex [Radius = 5 ÷ 10 = 0.5, round up to 1], while an SRM-6, with 12 points of damage as a standard munition, would fi ll the target hex
and each adjacent hex [Radius = 12 ÷ 10 = 1.2, round up to 2]). This smoke is treated as Light Smoke if the weapon delivers 5 points or less in
damage to the target hex. Otherwise, it is treated as Heavy Smoke.
Smoke generated by Smoke LRMs will linger for a number of turns equal to the half the rack size of the launcher used (rounded down) before dis-
sipating in the End Phase of the fi nal turn. For example, an LRM-15 Smoke Missile volley creates smoke for 7 turns (15 ÷ 2 = 7.5, round down to 7)
after the volley was fi red. Smoke generated by Smoke SRMs will linger for a length of time equal to the size of the rack used, so an SRM-6 fi ring
smoke rounds will create smoke for 6 turns before dissipating.
Smoke Missiles are incompatible with Artemis, Narc or Streak systems.
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#14
So TO has each group of 2 SRM or 5 LRM increase the smoke level of a target hex by one (light smoke) up to a maximum of two (heavy smoke). That doesn't cover much area but at least it makes sense, but those durations seem really long. How is the smoke dissipated? Does the entirety of the smoke laid down by a launcher disappear on the same turn, or is it dissipated at a rate of one smoke level every two/three turns? Are there rules for firing multiple launchers into a hex in the same phase or firing into existing smoke? Is the duration of a smoke cloud the sum of the durations of the existing smoke and the missiles fired into a hex, or does it default to the higher value?  Eg. if a LRM5 fires smoke missiles at an existing cloud of light smoke with 1 turn remaining is the resulting cloud 3 duration or 2 duration? Is it Heavy Smoke or light smoke?

Edit: Wait the RADIUS increases? Are you absolutely sure? I know that applies for smoke artillery shells or Arrow launchers, but LRM and SRM missiles? Please make absolutely certain the rules you are reading are for LRM and SRM launchers, and not artillery, because that does not jive with the handbook.
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#15
(01-12-2012, 07:49 PM)FogHat link Wrote: So TO has each group of 2 SRM or 5 LRM increase the smoke level of a target hex by one (light smoke) up to a maximum of two (heavy smoke). That doesn't cover much area but at least it makes sense, but those durations seem really long.
Must remember too that each hex equals 30 meters or 100 feet.
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#16
(01-12-2012, 07:49 PM)FogHat link Wrote: Please make absolutely certain the rules you are reading are for LRM and SRM launchers, and not artillery, because that does not jive with the handbook.
What I posted is a straight copy and paste from the LRM/SRM/MML smoke ammunition section in TacOps.
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#17
I am willing to add Tac-Ops style smoke as an option, but I really don't think it should be the only option available.
The problem with those rules ( aside from just ' they treat multiple missiles like Arrows which I, personally think is hella dumb ), is that they are really stilted (LRM 20 produces 7 times as much smoke as a LRM 10) There's also this line in Strategic ops that should supersede Tac-Ops.

Strategic Operations Pg. 310 :

"     Smoke: Each successful attack using smoke munitions adds
the attacking Elements IF rating in points of smoke to the target
hex. If the total points added to a hex in a single turn equals 3 or
more, the attack creates light smoke. "

    What I propose is a modification on the Strategic Ops rules:
Hexes of Light Smoke =  (I.F. rating / 3)  (rounded down) - Hexes of Heavy Smoke
Where:
Hexes of Heavy Smoke = (I.F. rating / 5) (rounded down)

The idea being that smoke cloud separation should behave as the inverse of cloud combination. Missiles produce clouds of "superdense" smoke, or smoke generated with a value greater than the sum of two hexes of Light Smoke (6). Superdense smoke not being a thing in battletech, these clouds must split into Heavy and Light smoke in separate hexes. The resulting clouds would dissipate at a rate of approximately one smoke level per turn, or roughly in accordance with Tac-Ops (LRM 5 smoke lasting 2 turns, LRM 20 smoke lasting 10 turns, subject to weather conditions).

[Image: Ffet5.gif]

Let me know what you think about allowing that as an optional rule, or if you think there's a better way to do it let me know that too! I'll see what I can do about adding in the Tac-Ops smoke option.
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#18
You can code anything you want as an unofficial option, as long as you mark it as such.
The default will be the official rules, however.
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#19
Alright, I'll take that. Still trying to hammer out a bit of code for LI arrows. That is right though? The first line of the image is how TO says smoke should work?
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#20
I believe the third image is wrong.

This smoke varies in density and size with the damage capacity of the launcher used. For every 10 points of damage a Smoke Missile would deliver
as a standard missile volley (rounded up), the radius of the smoke-fi lled area increases by 1 hex (so an LRM-5, with its 5 points of damage, would
fi ll only 1 hex [Radius = 5 ÷ 10 = 0.5, round up to 1], while an SRM-6, with 12 points of damage as a standard munition, would fi ll the target hex
and each adjacent hex [Radius = 12 ÷ 10 = 1.2, round up to 2]). This smoke is treated as Light Smoke if the weapon delivers 5 points or less in
damage to the target hex. Otherwise, it is treated as Heavy Smoke.

So the SRM 6 with 12 damage and LRM 15 with 15 damage would both do heavy smoke in the target hex and the hexes around it, just like the LRM 20, and a MML9 firing SRM smoke ammo. A MML9 firing smoke LRM ammo would work like a LRM10.
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