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Inability to fire indirectly
#1
Help.  I have figured out how to set the LRM for indirect fire, and have my handy little ferret VTOL out in front ready to shoot, but every time I try to fire at the target, it tells me I have no spotter available.  What am I missing.
And secondly, the system seems to overlook TAG as as option to fire in the artillery phase. Again, what am I missing?
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#2
did you definitely declare the Ferret as spoter? I think you have to do that in his weapon phase, there's a special buton for that. And of course you must do that before you declare the indirect fire.
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#3
another thing what type of LRM ammo are you using?
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#4
Yes. I was missing the declare spot thing. Man that was frustrating. Thanks for the information.
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#5
yw Smile
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#6
(01-15-2012, 01:30 PM)Kendo link Wrote: And secondly, the system seems to overlook TAG as as option to fire in the artillery phase. Again, what am I missing?

To use TAG, you first need to have a unit that is capable of utilizing the TAGged target. That is to say, if you have TAG on a unit, but you do not have any units that have weapons that benefit from TAG, then MegaMek does not allow you to select a target for your TAG, because there would be no point.
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#7
(01-16-2012, 02:32 PM)Crazy S link Wrote: [quote author=Kendo link=topic=612.msg3099#msg3099 date=1326648609]
And secondly, the system seems to overlook TAG as as option to fire in the artillery phase. Again, what am I missing?

To use TAG, you first need to have a unit that is capable of utilizing the TAGged target. That is to say, if you have TAG on a unit, but you do not have any units that have weapons that benefit from TAG, then MegaMek does not allow you to select a target for your TAG, because there would be no point.
[/quote]

Or, to be a little clearer...
If you don't have any of the following:
Arrow IV Homing Rounds
Copperhead Artillery Rounds
Semi-Guided LRMs

Then MegaMek skips the whole indirect fire phase and you don't get to use TAG since it would have no effect anyways.
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#8
But out of curiousity won't you need a spotter for this as well?
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#9
(01-16-2012, 05:26 PM)T.S. Hawk link Wrote: But out of curiousity won't you need a spotter for this as well?

If you mean for weapons that need TAG, then the TAG is the spotting. So, you only need TAG if you have units that can make use of TAGged targets, or you need a unit to spot. These are different actions with different results.
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#10
ah ok thanks for that info CS
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#11
As was pointed out in another post that I made, Batteltech allows for TAG to be used in place of spotting.  The benefit of this is that if the the spotter shoots they don't cause the indirect fire to incure an extra +1 penalty (TW pg 142).
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#12
(01-17-2012, 03:05 PM)wormyxl link Wrote: As was pointed out in another post that I made, Batteltech allows for TAG to be used in place of spotting.  The benefit of this is that if the the spotter shoots they don't cause the indirect fire to incure an extra +1 penalty (TW pg 142).

Again... but only for ammunition that supports it. TAG doesn't work with standard LRMs, so you cannot use TAG to spot for standard LRMs, thus you have to normal spot or don't get anything.
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#13
(01-17-2012, 03:05 PM)wormyxl link Wrote: As was pointed out in another post that I made, Batteltech allows for TAG to be used in place of spotting.  The benefit of this is that if the the spotter shoots they don't cause the indirect fire to incure an extra +1 penalty (TW pg 142).

From TW: "To use TAG equipment for target designation, calculate the to-hit number as for a standard weapon attack. Unlike spotting for indirect LRM fire (see LRM Indirect Fire, p. 111), a unit can use TAG to spot and make a weapon attack with no additional to-hit penalty."

I believe that means the unit spotting with tag doesn't suffer an additional to-hit penalty when firing other weapons, not the unit firing indirectly.

However, if you can fire it during the targeting phase it does work. I have been able to hit targets indirectly that were tagged during the targeting phase (I also had artillery to allow the tag to function in the targeting phase), but tag doesn't confer any bonus to the unit firing indirectly compared to using the standard Spot rules with most ammo types. It would be nice if you could always fire tag during the targeting phase though.
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#14
I think the confusion here is with the double use of the word "spot."  A better word for TAG would be "mark" a target. TAG'ing a unit is very different than spotting for another unit out of LoS.

You spot to allow units out of LoS to do indirect fire, and the unit that is spotting suffers penalties to it's shooting.  Spotting is done in the firing phase.

You TAG to spot ("mark" a target for laser guided munitions) for guided artillery before the firing phase, and using the TAG laser doesn't affect your shooting in the shooting phase.
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#15
(01-18-2012, 06:34 AM)RedDevil link Wrote: You TAG to spot ("mark" a target for laser guided munitions) for guided artillery before the firing phase, and using the TAG laser doesn't affect your shooting in the shooting phase.

...unless you have a unit that is using semi-guided LRMs. In that case, then TAG *does* affect your shooting in the Fire Phase.
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#16
And I am saying that currently, if you TAG a target you can then fire LRMs indirectly at it as though the target had been spotted. Regardless of the type of ammo used (thought semi-guided receive extra bonuses).

My reading of the entire TW section on TAG leads me to believe that the way MM handles it is correct. You can fire indirect LRMs at a target that has been hit with tag, as long as the targeting phase occurs, I've done it before in MM.
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#17
(01-18-2012, 12:58 PM)Jayof9s link Wrote: And I am saying that currently, if you TAG a target you can then fire LRMs indirectly at it as though the target had been spotted. Regardless of the type of ammo used (thought semi-guided receive extra bonuses).

My reading of the entire TW section on TAG leads me to believe that the way MM handles it is correct. You can fire indirect LRMs at a target that has been hit with tag, as long as the targeting phase occurs, I've done it before in MM.

Right, but you don't get any good affect from the TAG Wink
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#18
(01-18-2012, 02:22 PM)ralgith link Wrote: Right, but you don't get any good affect from the TAG Wink

Yes, that's exactly what I said before on the topic, which received 2 responses that seemed to suggest you couldn't use TAG to spot *at all* for indirect LRM fire without semi-guided ammo.
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#19
(01-18-2012, 02:35 PM)Jayof9s link Wrote: [quote author=ralgith link=topic=612.msg3184#msg3184 date=1326910954]
Right, but you don't get any good affect from the TAG Wink

Yes, that's exactly what I said before on the topic, which received 2 responses that seemed to suggest you couldn't use TAG to spot *at all* for indirect LRM fire without semi-guided ammo.
[/quote]

tbh, I didn't know you could. And I don't think it should work that way. It just doesn't make sense. Seems to me, we need some errata published Wink
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#20
(01-18-2012, 02:35 PM)Jayof9s link Wrote: Yes, that's exactly what I said before on the topic, which received 2 responses that seemed to suggest you couldn't use TAG to spot *at all* for indirect LRM fire without semi-guided ammo.

Well, I don't claim to have the definitive answer about Battletech rules, so I could very well be wrong.

That said,  I've always understood the rule to be that TAG does not work with standard LRMs. Only certain special munitions specify that they work with TAG, and the rule for TAG doesn't state that it functions in place of traditional spotting for indirect fire.

Page 246 of TW states, "TAG: Not a weapon in its own right, TAG (see p. 142) can be used to designate targets for weapons like laser-guided bombs or semi-guided LRMs." Now, granted, this quote is only giving examples, but the implication is that it works for special munitions since the examples are only special munitions, as opposed to standard LRM munitions.

I realize that we can probably debate this for a while, so I will pose this question to the devs on the official forums, and hope that they answer.
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